LiSER: Taz-Interview with Klaus Töpfer; 19. Juli 2001

 

Climatechange could cause wars“

The head of UNEP, Klaus Töpfer, demands to combine the protection of the environment and the fight against poverty. The North has to give up its ecological aggression against the South.

 

Taz: As the head of UNEP you have been living in Nairobi for the last 3,5 years. Did it change your point of view in regards to the environment?

 

KT: Absolutely, it has changes me completely. During the last few years we have experienced one of the worst droughts at the Horn of Africa. The extreme weather conditions cause starvation. Just walk to Downtown Nairobi and in the slums you will find environmental refugees who didn´t have anything left in their homelands because of desertification. In nairobi it bacame clear to me that it is really important to combine the fight against poverty with environmental protection.

 

Taz: Al lot of people in the North consider the poverty in the South to to be their problem .

 

KT: A lot of countries in the North shift the ecological costs of their prosperitiy to the South. In the South for instance rainforests are protected for almost no costs at all – and from these virgin forest the North draws the wood for furniture. It´s not only charity when we show solidarity with the South.

 

Taz: Is that the same structure when talking about climatechange?

 

KT: It is mainly the North that changes the climate. But the countries of the South pay for the consequences of the climatechange. That´s what I call “The ecological Aggession of the North against the South”.

 

Taz: And that could lead to wars?

 

KT: If precepitation changes due to climatechange therefore wars for water could arise. The ecological aggression is a matter of fact – it is nessesary to describe it that dramatic so that not only the people here in the South who are confronted with these circumstances every day understand these correlations.

 

Taz: Is the climatechange already visible?

 

KT: Changes are clearly noticible already: the number and the severity of droughtsas well as  of floods and storms is increasing as you can tell by looking at the balances of insurances. We had a heavy drought at the horn of Africa but furthermore we are also taking the increasing storms in Great Britain into our consideration.

 

Taz: Which chances do you apply to the summit in Bonn?

 

KT: Politicians have to come to terms with each other: even the business world has made more progress so far. The modernisation of the energy supply in China for instance had the positive sideaffect of a 10 – 12 percent reduction of climategases. The main aim was to improve the economical results. Therefore investments in modern ways of energysupply already lead to a relief for the environment if only new technologies were used. That’s is why I expect a positive outcome of the Kioto programme. Still there are many questions left to be discussed.

 

Taz: You are talking about Europe and the USA?

 

KT: Not only europe and the US but also about the developping countries. Especially small island states  would like to know about the way of support so that they are able to cope cope with the consequences of the climate change. There is the idea of an Adaptionfonds. Poor countries expect that we meet their needs. They also expect a transfer of modern technologies so that they can develop without putting that much pressure on the climate as we did.

 

Taz: what is the mood of the representatives of the developping countries like?

 

KT: there is a lot of frustration. Important promises from the summit in Rio 1992 were not fullfilled in a drastical way.

 

Taz: For example?

 

KT: Originally it was promised to raise the part of foreign aid to 0,7 % of the economical income. At these times the percentage lay at 0,4 %. In the meantime it was not raised after all but dropped down to 0,24%. That is frustrating!

 

Taz: You have gathered 1500 scientists for new reasearches on environmental affairs. Do we still have a lack of knowledge?

 

KT: We do in fact know a lot about the present state of the environment but we hardly know anything about the origins and the dynamics of destruction. The environment is an incredible treasure: anually we take more than trillions of dollars worth of ressources out without really paying or with paying only little for these values. Therefore it is important to know about how much nature can bear. If we overstrain nature it always leads to fatal consequences.

 

Taz: Do have an idol?

 

KT: My idol is the Intergovernmental Panel of Climate Change, the IPCC. Their judgement of the climatechange and the consequences has pointed out to politics what there still is to do – and put them under pressure to increase their activities. Something similar, I wish, would be needed for biodiversitiy, soil and sea protection.

 

Taz: What will follow the cllimatediscussion?

 

KT: We also need concrete aims for other matters of interest. I wish that the global summit  in Johannesburg next year will outline new aspects. Let us declare to half the number of people who do not have a secure access to clean water. Let us allow economal growth without deminishing the biodiversity furthermore. Let us declare to globally reduce pollution and wasteproduction. Let us reach a new deal that includes the input of developping countries referring to ressources and biodiversity.

 

 

Tageszeitung Nr: 6500; 19th July 2001; p.6; 146 lines; Interview: Matthias Urbach